biden. >> another great joe. >> joe, we sent him to china, it's done, boom, 24 hours, everything's fine. right? pats a couple people on the back. i don't know. we need more joe. i'm backing him against -- becky's backing hillary. anyway. here's what -- i like what you say, jared, because you're smart. you make the point that -- >> this is feeling a little bit like a set-up, but go ahead. >> it is. no. because you make the point that it matters how much you raise the minimum wage. >> right. >> i've said, okay. let's make it $100 an hour and see whether that does anything. and you do a thing where you go up to a certain point where it's beneficial. and beyond that, it could actually hurt job creation, right? >> right. that's precisely what i believe the evidence shows. and i was listening to your conversation earlier, much of which i found very interesting, especially about the economy. but on the minimum wage, i do think it often gets discussed in much too sweeping a manner because there are very different proposals that historically the proposals that have been enacted have been moderat